Comments on: The Preaching of the Word of God *IS* the Word of God?! http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/ not another blog, v2.0 Thu, 04 Mar 2010 01:36:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Tim Bayly http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-8747 Tim Bayly Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:09:13 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-8747 Calvin said it. Calvin said it.

]]> By: RevJATB http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7926 RevJATB Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:14:23 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7926 OK, this is an old post, but I'm just finding your blog. My first reaction was, "So who hasn't already heard this? This is old news!" After all the 2HC has been around for more than a couple of weeks. The idea isn't "Barthian": Barth was a product of the Swiss Reformed Church. This was the air he breathed. Saying this doctrine is "Barthian" is like saying Gandhi got the idea of nonviolent resistance from MLK. Besides, most evangelicals don't have a clue what Barth really said, because all they know about Barth is what someone told them Barth said. They've never read him for themselves. When Barth talks about the Bible "becoming the Word of God" when illumined by the Spirit, he is not saying that the Bible becomes something that it's not. When the Holy Spirit illuminates us, then the Bible becomes what it is! This is what St. Paul talks about in I Corinthians 2:14 (The person without the Spirit cannot understand the things of God because they are spiritually discerned.) This is not saying that, apart from the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit, the Bible is not the Word of God, but it is saying that, apart from the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit, it may as well not be the Word of God. Yes, the preaching of the Word of God is the Word of God. OK, this is an old post, but I’m just finding your blog. My first reaction was, “So who hasn’t already heard this? This is old news!” After all the 2HC has been around for more than a couple of weeks.

The idea isn’t “Barthian”: Barth was a product of the Swiss Reformed Church. This was the air he breathed. Saying this doctrine is “Barthian” is like saying Gandhi got the idea of nonviolent resistance from MLK.

Besides, most evangelicals don’t have a clue what Barth really said, because all they know about Barth is what someone told them Barth said. They’ve never read him for themselves. When Barth talks about the Bible “becoming the Word of God” when illumined by the Spirit, he is not saying that the Bible becomes something that it’s not. When the Holy Spirit illuminates us, then the Bible becomes what it is! This is what St. Paul talks about in I Corinthians 2:14 (The person without the Spirit cannot understand the things of God because they are spiritually discerned.) This is not saying that, apart from the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit, the Bible is not the Word of God, but it is saying that, apart from the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit, it may as well not be the Word of God.

Yes, the preaching of the Word of God is the Word of God.

]]> By: Robbie Schmidtberger http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7380 Robbie Schmidtberger Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:29:27 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7380 Since that tweet I looked more at Scripture when it says "the word of God." Often it is associated with preaching. Later I listened to Chappell's message at the Gospel Coalition, combine that with the confession you quoted it is clear that Scripture calls preaching the word of God. t the same time the Bereans are commended to us. Since that tweet I looked more at Scripture when it says “the word of God.” Often it is associated with preaching. Later I listened to Chappell’s message at the Gospel Coalition, combine that with the confession you quoted it is clear that Scripture calls preaching the word of God. t the same time the Bereans are commended to us.

]]> By: Alex Costa http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7378 Alex Costa Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:02:15 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7378 That objection by Travis Seitler is awful. That objection by Travis Seitler is awful.

]]> By: Russ http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7342 Russ Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:04:54 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7342 Funny how often Reformed theology can freak out Reformed people. (I mean funny sad, not funny haha). Funny how often Reformed theology can freak out Reformed people. (I mean funny sad, not funny haha).

]]> By: Greg http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7333 Greg Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:23:57 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7333 "A sense in which" and "with respect to" Two of the most helpful phrases in the theologian's vocabulary! “A sense in which” and “with respect to”
Two of the most helpful phrases in the theologian’s vocabulary!

]]> By: Tertius http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7323 Tertius Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:03:55 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7323 Sounds good to me and in accord with Scripture. As Paul wrote to the Romans, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. In context he was talking about preachers being sent out to proclaim Christ and Him crucified. God is still at work today calling men to be set apart for preaching the Word of God each Lord's Day in the local church. Private Bible readings and devotions are great and indeed the hearers should be careful to be like the Bereans who check the Scriptures to hold the preacher to account to the full counsel of God's Word. But God has a special purpose and blessing on the public proclamation of the Gospel, particularly to the church gathered for worship on the Lord's Day. Sounds good to me and in accord with Scripture. As Paul wrote to the Romans, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. In context he was talking about preachers being sent out to proclaim Christ and Him crucified.

God is still at work today calling men to be set apart for preaching the Word of God each Lord’s Day in the local church.

Private Bible readings and devotions are great and indeed the hearers should be careful to be like the Bereans who check the Scriptures to hold the preacher to account to the full counsel of God’s Word. But God has a special purpose and blessing on the public proclamation of the Gospel, particularly to the church gathered for worship on the Lord’s Day.

]]> By: Travis Seitler http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7298 Travis Seitler Sun, 24 May 2009 04:26:34 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7298 Hmm... okay, a few things: The statement in the title is still wrong, because "verbing a noun" is not equal to the noun on its own. (In other words, "driving a car" does not equal "a car.") That's what I meant when I said it was "just plain logically" wrong. Your rewording at the end of the post corrects that (now you're saying that "a noun, when verbed, remains said noun"), so fair dinkum! But does a car, when driven into a canyon where it blows up into a million pieces and kills all occupants, remain a car? In certain technical senses, yes; but in all practical senses, no. So I would say the truthfulness of what you've posted here all depends on how the following words and phrases are defined: "Word of God" "preached" "in the church" "preachers lawfully called" "to be regarded" Then there's the whole issue of how some "lawfully called preacher" gets this special blessing/covering when quoting Scripture, but Average Joe Christian's tongue is on its own. And while the angel referred Cornelius to Peter, God first had to teach Peter with a series of dreams and visions. So at best, there's a case for a <em>combination</em> of general and special revelation. The 2ndHC wants to deny special revelation entirely, which is a doctrine borne out of tradition rather than Scripture. And how is a preacher "lawfully called," anyway? The only calling I see in 1 Cor 14 is that he has something to say. Or are we confusing "preacher" and "elder" here? And in what context(s) can a "preacher" be said to be "preaching"? Too many weasel words in this one, so I'll have to stick to my initial "nope." Hmm… okay, a few things:

The statement in the title is still wrong, because “verbing a noun” is not equal to the noun on its own. (In other words, “driving a car” does not equal “a car.”) That’s what I meant when I said it was “just plain logically” wrong. Your rewording at the end of the post corrects that (now you’re saying that “a noun, when verbed, remains said noun”), so fair dinkum!

But does a car, when driven into a canyon where it blows up into a million pieces and kills all occupants, remain a car? In certain technical senses, yes; but in all practical senses, no.

So I would say the truthfulness of what you’ve posted here all depends on how the following words and phrases are defined:

“Word of God”
“preached”
“in the church”
“preachers lawfully called”
“to be regarded”

Then there’s the whole issue of how some “lawfully called preacher” gets this special blessing/covering when quoting Scripture, but Average Joe Christian’s tongue is on its own.

And while the angel referred Cornelius to Peter, God first had to teach Peter with a series of dreams and visions. So at best, there’s a case for a combination of general and special revelation. The 2ndHC wants to deny special revelation entirely, which is a doctrine borne out of tradition rather than Scripture.

And how is a preacher “lawfully called,” anyway? The only calling I see in 1 Cor 14 is that he has something to say. Or are we confusing “preacher” and “elder” here? And in what context(s) can a “preacher” be said to be “preaching”?

Too many weasel words in this one, so I’ll have to stick to my initial “nope.”

]]> By: Rae http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7297 Rae Sun, 24 May 2009 03:14:50 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7297 Yeah, I can see how the quote looks kind of Barthian, but the 2nd Helvetic seems to be pointing to the inherent authority in the Word preached . . . whereas I've always seen Barth's line of thought as almost asserting a <i>lack</i> of inherent authority in the Word (that is, until the Spirit does a work in the hearer). Yeah, I can see how the quote looks kind of Barthian, but the 2nd Helvetic seems to be pointing to the inherent authority in the Word preached . . . whereas I’ve always seen Barth’s line of thought as almost asserting a lack of inherent authority in the Word (that is, until the Spirit does a work in the hearer).

]]> By: art http://raewhitlock.com/2009/05/23/the-preaching-of-the-word-of-god-is-the-word-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-7296 art Sun, 24 May 2009 02:33:12 +0000 http://raewhitlock.com/?p=348#comment-7296 <a href="http://www.morethancake.org/2009/02/one-year-with-karl-barth-word-of-god.html" rel="nofollow">Here is a good blog post</a> that quotes Barth on proclamation of the Word of God as being the word of God along with some helpful commentary. @Mark: these are the quotes that I was referring to via Twitter. Here is a good blog post that quotes Barth on proclamation of the Word of God as being the word of God along with some helpful commentary.

@Mark: these are the quotes that I was referring to via Twitter.

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