Comments on: Bring the wine, Jesus.

By: Israel

Israel — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:25:13 +0000

Abstinence from alcohol among religious faiths is not unique. However, among Latter-day Saints abstinence from alcohol is expected to be total, as is the abstinence from tobacco, tea and coffee.

By: Greg

Greg — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:50:18 +0000

I don’t know. It seems pretty simple to me. Jesus did it. Scripture condones it. I don’t see where the complicated part is. Once we’ve become more conservative than Jesus… that’s a bad sign.

By: Adam Winters

Adam Winters — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 15:48:32 +0000

“In fact . . . I’m almost sure that he would. They accused him of being a drunk, and I don’t see a reason to think that most 21st century American evangelicals wouldn’t do the same.”

That’s a good point, Rae. This issue is certainly neither clear nor simple. I only wish we could all be more humble in the way we debate this issue today.

By: Rae

Rae — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 15:10:51 +0000

@Luke: I’ve heard that sort of theory proposed before (about the “wine” supposedly being non-alcoholic in Jesus’ day), but it’s been debunked pretty handily. Still, lots of teetotalers like to fall back on it as if it’s true. The first thing I’d point out would be that if what they called “wine” really didn’t have much alcohol in it, someone would have to drink a ridiculous-to-impossible amount to get drunk. Yet, there are accounts of and warnings against drunkenness throughout Scripture. I wouldn’t think it’d be worth mentioning if it were so hard to get drunk in the first place.

I’ll try to find some more scholarly refutations for you, but that’s what comes to me off the top of my head.

By: Rae

Rae — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 04:00:03 +0000

Hey Adam . . . good to see you around. Good observations, and you’re likely right about how Dr. Mohler (who I agree with on most things) is seeing the issue. I’d probably disagree with that logic in that I think that were Jesus to come to 21st century America, he’d probably treat the cultural norms of evangelicals (at large) in the same way he treated the cultural norms of the Pharisees of 1st century Palestine. In fact . . . I’m almost sure that he would. They accused him of being a drunk, and I don’t see a reason to think that most 21st century American evangelicals wouldn’t do the same.

By: Adam Winters

Adam Winters — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:43:45 +0000

Check that spelling…

I hope you are doing well these days, Rae. Not Ray, as in Man Ray or Ray Fillet. hehe

By: Adam Winters

Adam Winters — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:42:41 +0000

Greetings, old friend! In defense of Dr. Mohler, I think we need to recognize a key caveat in his argumentation. Mohler would not say his logic excludes Jesus from joining an SBC church. Rather, Mohler’s logic may suggest that had Jesus come to earth in 20th America, then he may have honored the cultrual norms of evangelicals by practicing abstenence. I don’t know if Dr. Mohler would hold to this (or Jesus for that matter!), but do I know Mohler holds to the idea that in 20th century America (especially SBC circles), an evangelical who drinks can potential either harm his witness or be a stumbling block to other Christians. This fact is due to our present cultural context. I just feel like I need to speak up for my president now and then, though I certainly don’t agree with him on every possible issue.

Hope your doing well these days, Ray.

By: falsecathedrals » Blog Archive » Reasons I Drink!

falsecathedrals » Blog Archive » Reasons I Drink! — Tue, 29 May 2007 13:34:02 +0000

[...] Blosser, pastor of Grace Presbyterian Church in Columbus, OH had this response for Rae on his blog over the long [...]

By: LUke

LUke — Tue, 29 May 2007 13:28:34 +0000

This is great stuff. I recently hear a SBC argument against Drinking: wine not that strong, wine only good stuff to drink so they had to, the “better” wine is the wine with the least fermentation etc.

Rae, do you have any resources to combat this type of thoughts?

By: Greg Blosser

Greg Blosser — Mon, 28 May 2007 06:13:05 +0000

Reasons I drink:

1. To learn to fear God.
Deut. 14:23 And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

2. So My Household Will Rejoice
Deut. 14:26 spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

3. Because this day is holy and the joy of the Lord is my strength.
Neh. 8:10 Then he said to them, “Go your way. Eat the fat and drink sweet wine and send portions to anyone who has nothing ready, for this day is holy to our Lord. And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength.”

4. Because God wants my heart to be glad & that’s what some plants are for.
Psa. 104:14-15 You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart.

5. It’s a reward for my faithfulness in tithing.
Proverbs 3:9-10 Honor the LORD with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.

6. It facilitates romance & marital bliss (If you know what I’m saying- wink wink. nudge nudge.)
Song 8:2 I would lead you and bring you into the house of my mother—
she who used to teach me. I would give you spiced wine to drink,
the juice of my pomegranate.

7. Because I’m practicing for a dinner date I’ve got with Jesus.
Is. 25:6 On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.

8. Because I’m thirsty and it’s what Jesus is serving.
Is. 55:1 “Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

9. Because I am radiant over the goodness of the Lord.
Jer. 31:12 They shall come and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall be radiant over the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine, and the oil, and over the young of the flock and the herd; their life shall be like a watered garden, and they shall languish no more.

10. Because it is one way God wants to satisfy me.
Joel 2:19 The LORD answered and said to his people, “Behold, I am sending to you grain, wine, and oil,
and you will be satisfied; and I will no more make you a reproach among the nations.

11. Because God’s goodness is great and it makes the young women flourish.
Zech. 9:17 For how great is his goodness, and how great his beauty! Grain shall make the young men flourish, and new wine the young women.

12. Because that’s how Jesus rolls. (HWJR?)
John 2:9 When the master of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom
John 2:10 and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.”

13. Because the Bible says it’s good for my health.
1Tim. 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

14. But mostly because of peer pressure… from Jesus.
Mark 14:23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it.