Comments on: Luring ‘Em in with Lattés http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/ not another blog, v2.0 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:32:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: liz wells http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5304 liz wells Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:27:37 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5304 Rae- I totally agreed with everything you said, and that rarely happens for me. If I were to get nit-picky though I'd say the <i>gospel</i><i> is completely relevant today, not christianity. My pastor uses a quote that I love "Religion is for those who are afraid of hell, the gospel is for those that have been there".</i> Rae- I totally agreed with everything you said, and that rarely happens for me. If I were to get nit-picky though I’d say the gospel is completely relevant today, not christianity. My pastor uses a quote that I love “Religion is for those who are afraid of hell, the gospel is for those that have been there”.

]]> By: Greg http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5297 Greg Tue, 18 Apr 2006 03:47:46 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5297 That would attract a completely different "demographic", That would attract a completely different “demographic”,

]]> By: Rollins http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5303 Rollins Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:27:01 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5303 Greg's just mad because it's not coffee from Speedway. Greg’s just mad because it’s not coffee from Speedway.

]]> By: greg http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5296 greg Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:20:45 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5296 I agree with you Rae. I'd add that there is nothing wrong with having events or whatever for the purpose of attracting people to the church. I think we've been so use to seeing "outreach" done in manipulative and shallow ways that we've developed reactions against any event or activity, etc which is meant to attract people. Certainly we are meant to attract people to Christ and even to church! I think the problem is when we don't allow the gospel (to which we are attempting to attract people) to also dictate the manner in which we attract them. Really, really heinous examples of this false divide between message and method can be seen in the Crusades (insert sarcastic comment about Campus Crusade for Christ here) when the Church would convert people at sword point. Free Coffee coupons is not conversion at sword point, but we are uncomfortable with it because it seems a bit like bribery and therefore is equally incompatible with the message of the gospel. Events like the arts forum are more compatible with the gospel, it would seem in that it brings distinctively gospel oriented thinking about life to bear on one sphere of the world God has created, and seeks to bring that sphere increasingly under the Kingship of Christ. That's redemptive. Also, an arts forum demonstrates to the community we are in (an arts oriented community) that we value what they value and by implication that God values what they value (beauty, creativity, expression, etc). It is helping to give people access to the gospel and to a Christian community by being intentionally incarnational. That also is redemptive. An argument could be made, I guess that giving away coffee coupons is like the gospel in that it is free and the gospel is free and God affirms coffee because he created coffee beans. But as a stand alone attempt to draw unchurched people, are any of you buying it? I'm not sure I do. I agree with you Rae. I’d add that there is nothing wrong with having events or whatever for the purpose of attracting people to the church. I think we’ve been so use to seeing “outreach” done in manipulative and shallow ways that we’ve developed reactions against any event or activity, etc which is meant to attract people. Certainly we are meant to attract people to Christ and even to church! I think the problem is when we don’t allow the gospel (to which we are attempting to attract people) to also dictate the manner in which we attract them. Really, really heinous examples of this false divide between message and method can be seen in the Crusades (insert sarcastic comment about Campus Crusade for Christ here) when the Church would convert people at sword point.

Free Coffee coupons is not conversion at sword point, but we are uncomfortable with it because it seems a bit like bribery and therefore is equally incompatible with the message of the gospel.

Events like the arts forum are more compatible with the gospel, it would seem in that it brings distinctively gospel oriented thinking about life to bear on one sphere of the world God has created, and seeks to bring that sphere increasingly under the Kingship of Christ. That’s redemptive. Also, an arts forum demonstrates to the community we are in (an arts oriented community) that we value what they value and by implication that God values what they value (beauty, creativity, expression, etc). It is helping to give people access to the gospel and to a Christian community by being intentionally incarnational. That also is redemptive.

An argument could be made, I guess that giving away coffee coupons is like the gospel in that it is free and the gospel is free and God affirms coffee because he created coffee beans. But as a stand alone attempt to draw unchurched people, are any of you buying it? I’m not sure I do.

]]> By: Rae http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5302 Rae Mon, 17 Apr 2006 03:56:44 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5302 Yeah, I thought about our Arts Forum as I was writing this, actually and wondered if I was being hypocritical (as I fully support the GC Arts Guild and all of the events it puts on). After all, we are in the "arts side of town" like you said, and we'd by lying if we said that we didn't hope it would bring some folks into the church to check out worship on Sunday nights. For the moment, I'm standing by my post because I think there are some key differences between events like that Arts Forum and the Starbucks Card campaign. First of all, the Arts Forum and like events that we do (film discussions, etc) are not for the express purpose of getting people to come to corporate worship services. Like I said, we love to hear it when we meet visitors who say they found out about our church because of one of those events. Still, the reason we do these events is pretty simple . . . the church is called to glorify God, the arts matter to the surrounding community, so one way that we can glorify God is by showing how the arts can look when the Gospel is applied. (BTW, I'm not speaking in any sort of "official" capacity for Grace Central here . . . this is just how I see things. I'm sure that if I say something that needs correction or clarification, Greg will be swift to the task. :D) Yeah, I thought about our Arts Forum as I was writing this, actually and wondered if I was being hypocritical (as I fully support the GC Arts Guild and all of the events it puts on). After all, we are in the “arts side of town” like you said, and we’d by lying if we said that we didn’t hope it would bring some folks into the church to check out worship on Sunday nights. For the moment, I’m standing by my post because I think there are some key differences between events like that Arts Forum and the Starbucks Card campaign.

First of all, the Arts Forum and like events that we do (film discussions, etc) are not for the express purpose of getting people to come to corporate worship services. Like I said, we love to hear it when we meet visitors who say they found out about our church because of one of those events. Still, the reason we do these events is pretty simple . . . the church is called to glorify God, the arts matter to the surrounding community, so one way that we can glorify God is by showing how the arts can look when the Gospel is applied.

(BTW, I’m not speaking in any sort of “official” capacity for Grace Central here . . . this is just how I see things. I’m sure that if I say something that needs correction or clarification, Greg will be swift to the task. :D )

]]> By: Greg http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5301 Greg Mon, 17 Apr 2006 03:49:11 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5301 I just read the article and it says they spent 10k on the gift cards, 25k on direct mail to advertise and they expect to get 1000 visitors out of it. I think maybe I'll start a church marketing consultation business and this will be my gig: give 1000 strangers 25 bucks to visit your church, nix the starbucks idea, give me 5k for the "consultation fees" and keep the 5k left over. There. You get your 1000 visitors. They each get 25 bucks. I get five thousand and you save five thousand. it's win win win win. Everybody's happy. I'm a church marketing genius. I just read the article and it says they spent 10k on the gift cards, 25k on direct mail to advertise and they expect to get 1000 visitors out of it.

I think maybe I’ll start a church marketing consultation business and this will be my gig: give 1000 strangers 25 bucks to visit your church, nix the starbucks idea, give me 5k for the “consultation fees” and keep the 5k left over. There. You get your 1000 visitors. They each get 25 bucks. I get five thousand and you save five thousand. it’s win win win win. Everybody’s happy.

I’m a church marketing genius.

]]> By: Rollins http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5300 Rollins Mon, 17 Apr 2006 01:14:35 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5300 I spent more time thinking about this, and the way the church is relevant to culture today, and that's not the problem. You're right in the fact that Christianity is totally relevant and enough to stand on it's own, it's the Christians who aren't. I think that might be a whole other can of worms though. I spent more time thinking about this, and the way the church is relevant to culture today, and that’s not the problem. You’re right in the fact that Christianity is totally relevant and enough to stand on it’s own, it’s the Christians who aren’t.

I think that might be a whole other can of worms though.

]]> By: Greg http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5299 Greg Mon, 17 Apr 2006 00:48:56 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5299 Well, i'll give you one difference. At the Arts Forum we charged five bucks to get in! (mama didn't raise no fool.) Well, i’ll give you one difference. At the Arts Forum we charged five bucks to get in! (mama didn’t raise no fool.)

]]> By: Rollins http://raewhitlock.com/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/comment-page-1/#comment-5298 Rollins Sun, 16 Apr 2006 23:19:39 +0000 http://rmfo-blogs.com/raekwon/archives/2006/04/15/luring-em-in-with-lattes/#comment-5298 how would this differ from say... an "arts forum" in the arts side of town? I think it is a little cliche to do so, but only in the fact that it's Starbucks they're giving out (which I believe I also had at said Arts Forum). how would this differ from say… an “arts forum” in the arts side of town?

I think it is a little cliche to do so, but only in the fact that it’s Starbucks they’re giving out (which I believe I also had at said Arts Forum).

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